Rand Paul vs Fauci's lawyer

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CSPAN has it here: https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4979775/senator-paul-asserts-natural-immunity-good-covid-19-vaccine

Transcript from C-SPAN:

And we know we have to do more. >>

thanks so much. thank you, chair murray. >>

thank you. Senator paul. >>

Senator Rand Paul: Mr. Becerra, are you familiar with an Israeli study that had 2.5 million patients and found that the vaccinated group was actually seven times more likely to get infected with covid than the people who had gotten covid naturally? >>

Becerra: Senator, I would have to get back you to on that one, i'm not familiar with that study. >>

Rand Paul: I think you might want to be if you're going to travel the country insulting the millions of Americans, including nba star jonathan isaac, who have had covid, recovered, look at a study with 2.5 million people, and say, well, you know what, I should make the decision. instead you've called jonathan isaac and others, myself included, flat earthers. are you a doctor or a medical doctor? >>

Becerra: I have worked over 30 years on health policy. >>

Senator Rand Paul: You're not a medical doctor. Do you have a science degree? And yet you travel the country, calling people flat earthers, who have had covid, looked at studies of millions of people, and made their own personal decision that their immunity they naturally acquired is sufficient but you presume somehow to tell over 100 million Americans who survived covid that we have no right to determine our own medical care. you alone are on high and you've made these decisions, a lawyer with no scientific background, no medical degree. this is an arrogance coupled with an an authoritarianism that is unseemly and un-American. you, sir, are the one ignoring the science. the vast preponderance of scientific studies, dozens and dozens, show robust, long-lasting immunity after covid infection. even the cdc does not recommend measles vaccine if you have measles immunity. the same was true for smallpox. but you ignore history and science to shame the flat earthers, as you call them. you should be ashamed of yourself and apologize to the American people for being dishonest about naturally acquired immunity. you want more people to choose vaccination? so do i. you want to lessen vaccine hesitancy? so do i. you want to have that happen? quit lying to people about naturally acquired immunity. quit lording it over people, acting as if these people are deplorable and unwashed. try persuasion instead of government cudgels. try humility instead of arrogance. try freedom instead of coercion. most of all, try understanding there is no more basic medical right than deciding what we inject into our bodies. today, half a hearing that millions of people in a study prove -- show without a doubt that there is a great deal of immunity from getting it naturally, do you want to apologize to the 100 million Americans who suffered through covid, survived, have immunity, and yet you want to hold them down and vaccinate them? do you want to apologizing for calling those people flat earthers? >>

Becerra: Senator, I appreciate your question. and I appreciate that everyone has their opinion. we follow the fact and the designs at hhs. we use the expertise of the medical professionals, the scientists at hhs, to make decisions. it's a team effort. and we rely on what is on the ground, showing as results. >>

Senator Rand Paul: except for the dozens and dozens of studies, in fact most if not all of the studies show robust immunity from getting the disease naturally. the cdc says if confuse had you've had measles and have immunity, you don't have to be vaccinated. the same is true of smallpox. you're selectively doing this because you want us to submit to your will. you have no scientific background, no scientific degrees, yet you aren't really concerned about 100 million Americans who have had the disease, you just want to tell us do as you're told. that's what you're telling us, you're going to tell us if I have 100 employees you're going to put me out of business with a $700,000 fine if I don't obey what you think is the science. don't you understand that it's presumptuous for you to be in charge of all the science? have you ever heard of a second opinion? I can't go to my doctor and ask my doctor's opinion? I mean, this is incredibly arrogant combined with this or authoritarian nature that you just think we'll just tell all of america do what we say and if not we'll fine them or put them in jail or not go to school or not travel. The science is against you on this. The science is clear. Naturally acquired immunity is as good as a vaccine, the Israeli study showing it actually better. this isn't an argument against the vaccine but it's an argument for letting people make a decision who already have immunity. you're not willing to consider natural immunity? >>

Becerra: Senator, our team has reviewed every study that's out there on covid, whether it's from saleisrael, the u.s., or everywhere else. they have used facts that haven about provided through the rigorous research that's been done to reach conclusions. 660-odd thousand Americans or more have died because of covid. area trying to do everything we can to save as many as possible. we're using the facts. we're following the science and following the law. >>

Senator Rand Paul: nobody is arguing the severity of this but you are completely ignoring the science on natural immunity, so is Fauci, so is the whole group, you're ignoring it because you want submission, you want everybody to submit to your will, do as your told, despite the large pod of scientific evidence that says naturally acquired immunity does work, is an important part of how we're going to require from this. so is the vaccine. when you add them together, we're in a much different place than if you ignore them. 100 million Americans by conservative cdc estimates have had the disease. 200 million or more now have been vaccinated. it's a good thing. combined together, it's how the disease is. nobody wants to get the disease. we're not advising anybody to get the disease. if you're unlucky enough to get it, think of the nurses and doctors and orderlies who all bravely took care of covid patients. there was no vaccine for a year and an in half, they risked their lives, they got it, survived, and now people like you are arrogant enough to say you can no longer work in the hospital because you've already had the disease, we're going to force you to take a vaccine that the science does not prove is better than naturally acquired. that's an arrogance that should be chastened>