The claim that Jesus did not actually die on the cross, but was drugged and revived later is an old claim, is an old one, and is quite ridiculous, in fact.
You may be being tripped up by a priori assumptions: if a God exists who created the universe and exists independently of the universe (i.e. outside the boundaries and restrictions of the universe), then it is nothing to Him to resurrect a dead person.
Only an anthropomorphic God would have an interest in resurrecting people. I don't see God doing something like that because he is not a person. Now if you want to define God as some kind of tremendous force responsible for creation and/or a spirit of good that innately dwells in every person (but often pushed down by an evil spirit), then I would be on board.
As a non-Christian I am more impressed by the good works of Christian charity than a ritual designed to inspire awe in dutiful believers.
Amazingly what you are talking about is essentially the Biblical God:
God as some kind of tremendous person (more than a force actually- He is fully personal ) responsible for creation = God the Eternal Father
and/or a spirit of good that innately dwells in every person (but often pushed down by an evil spirit) = the Holy Spirit (Christian theology is a little more nuanced about the Holy Spirit’s presence and relation to conscience, but what you said is broadly speaking what Christians mean by the Holy Spirit)
But there is one more:
The “eternal word of God” (“Logos” in Greek) the principle of wisdom and rationality seen at work in all things that exist -and at the same time the “light that enlightens all humankind” ie the inspiration behind all rationality and true wisdom = God the Son Who was incarnate as the human being Jesus 2000 years ago
Btw this is far from anthropomorphic God the Father is fully God, God the Son is fully God, and Holy Spirit is fully God, yet not three gods but one God. God the Father is Lord, God the Son is Lord, and God the Holy Spirit is fully Lord, yet not three lords but one Lord.
Are you aware that the absolute earliest the new testament was written down was about 70 years after Jesus' death. Many other historians date it more than 100 years after his death. So what Luke wrote down isn't from first hand experience. Those stories have been orally transmitted for at least three generations. A lot of Chinese whispers. No doubt, Jesus was an extraordinarily brave man but we will never know if he died on the cross or not. That he apparently was seen a few days later is an indication that he didn't die.
A long time ago I read a German book about Jesus. The title was something like "A man called Jesus". It made a lot of sense. It debunked the fantastic stories around Jesus. Since then I really like Jesus. I believe he was an extraordinary man, a freedom fighter and advanced spiritual person. The book claimed he went to India between the age of about 20 and 30 years of age and returned much wiser and braver. Advanced Yogis can do amazing things - like being burried alive for weeks and survive. But even Yogi's can't come back from physical death. If the body is dead - it is dead.
I read a lot of books about spirituality and language is tricky and confusing. But in spiritual circles, when they talk about death, very often it refers to the death of the ego and people are reborn in an enlightened state. That's the story in many traditions. I think a similar story happens with Jesus on the cross. His word: "Father forgive them. They don't know what they are doing." is a clear indication that, in his suffering, he has a very enlightening experience, realizing the illusion everyone lives in. I believe that Jesus got enlightened on the cross. The author of the book believes that Jesus had powerful friends that bribed the Roman soldiers (easy to do in these days) and he was saved, barely alive. After his recovery he went back to India. One of the lost Jewish tribes went to India. Apparently he lived with them until he died as an old man. Apparently there is a grave and in his name.
The big question is: Why is so important to keep up that amazing story that he physically resurrected? In all spiritual traditions, the physical was never important. The body is just a biological entity that grows and dies and decays. What matters is spirit and awareness. Most of Christian stories are not helpful or encouraging for people to reach for enlightenment. My 2 cents for what it is worth. You believe what you like. I hope it serves you.
Thank you for your post! It has really inspired me to do another fact check, I really love people's questions and challenges!
The resurrection of Jesus and the divine empowerment of the disciples at Pentecost, is the only thing that can explain the fearlessness of his disciples, who were all martyred for their faith except possibly John the apostle. Indeed it is also the only thing that can explain the utter disregard of the early Christians for their own suffering and their love for their enemies. When one examines the evidence, there is no other credible explanation for these events, if one approaches the facts with an open mind. https://firstfactcheck.substack.com/p/fact-check-jesus-rose-from-the-dead
When we look at scriptures, we should understand what they're saying before we come to conclusions. Might I recommend you read the New Testament and come to your own conclusion from the texts themselves; because (no offence!) it sounds as though you are very fond of this book about Jesus going to India, but you haven't looked very much at what people said about Jesus who actually knew him personally and were his friends, that is, his disciples, who wrote two of the biographies of Jesus called gospels and who directed the writing of the other two. You should at least check out for yourself if this opinion is credible.
Regarding the ego, etc, well, St Paul said, "I have been crucified with Christ, so that it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me. This life that I live now, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave his life for me." Jesus is the only true light of the world. The life of Jesus gives us real life, eternal life; but to receive this life, we have to die to ourselves, to our own ideas and thoughts. Other religions cannot give this kind of eternal life, because no other human being was resurrected from the dead - only Jesus can give us the Spirit of God.
God bless you and I hope you find the enlightenment you are looking for: please don't give up until you find the truth!
Love the quote by St. Paul. I read the New Testament. I grew up as a Catholic. Left the church aged 18. I don't don't get inspired Christianity very often and often find Christans annoying, arrogant, close minded, patronizing and not very intelligent to be totally honest with you. Your statement that you only can get enlightened through Jesus is totally ridiculous in my opinion. Christians seem very insecure and very obsessed in their exclusivenes of anything else and started many wars, tortured many people in the name of Jesus. It's a dangerous infantile belief system that often gives it's followers a superiority complex and almost unbearable spiritual ego. That's just my observation and how I relate to them. There is great beauty and value in some of the teachings, of course. I love Meister Eckhard. But it can't compare with Buddism and Adveita Vendata in clarity and instructions to reach enlightenment. Of course it works for some people to holy surrender to Christ. But the key word here is not the object (Christ) but the process (surrender). Surrendering can be done in many forms and with many objects and is a way to enlightenment (or heaven as you call it) open to a few who are ready. I try to surrender to the unfolding of life in every moment. I am trying to be happy and fully accepting with whatever the next moment brings. If that's Jesus - great. If it's a nice cup of coffee. The same. Probably strange for you as you seem to glorify and elevate one expression of God (Jesus) over all other expressions of God. God is here in every moment expressed in every manifestation. You don't have to read or believe anything or go back 2000 years. It's right here now accessible to everyone, sinner or saint, believer or non-believer. Just open your eyes. Thats what most religous dont get. Religon and believes and scriptures are the beginning, not the end, and every religious believe has to be dropped eventually because it is distorting and replacing the real experience of God. I met god, I have been god. I don't have to believe in a god. God is all there is. Emphasis on all. No distinctions apply. No holy and unholy. No good and evil. These are silly distinctions created by a dualistic egocentric mind.
I like Meister Eckhardt as well - “Man goes far away or near but God never goes far-off; he is always standing close at hand, and even if he cannot stay within he goes no further than the door.”
Jesus said “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me”
Yes, they talk about the same thing. So do hundreds, if not thousands of other enlightened beings. The only difference between all of them and Jesus is that humans made a lot of fuss around him while others, like Meister Eckhard, went unnoticed. The other big difference, of course, is that Jesus as the man was a dangerous revolutionary provoking the Jews and the Romans and got brutally tortured and crucified for it.
About God being near; in Romans 10:8 Paul says this: “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So no good and evil? You really think the actions of a person who feeds the hungry is the same as the actions of Hitler, who starved and killed many people? No distinction between the actions of a good parent who sacrifices her own needs to feed her children and a predatory pedophile? No difference between the actions of Martin Luther King and the person who murdered him?
It is Jesus Himself who says that He is the only one for whom it is any use losing our life/ego:
Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?”
Jesus Himself says He is the only way:
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well. In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.
“Lord,” said Thomas, “we do not know where You are going, so how can we know the way?”
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had known Me, you would know My Father as well. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him.”
Carrying your cross - not avoiding suffering but embracing it through love for Jesus and others - is the way to know life according to Jesus.
Of course, there is the concept of good and evil. But it is humans who apply that distinction, and it is not as clear cut through history what is good and what is evil. Burning a woman who followed a pagan god and rituals on the stake - is that good or evil? I guess it depends who you ask. It's a human distinction. It has nothing to do with god. Do you know how many entities there are in the world? Trillions upon trillions upon trillion. "God" is the source of all of them. We humans are just one of those trillions upon trillion upon trillions. If you think we humans are special and chosen bygod, you suffer from a severely egocentrically delusion. Humans wrote down and made up concepts about god, including Jesus and his disciples. God is not what you think. You can't think god. You can only meet him and then you know. And everything you try to say about that meeting will be wrong because language is a tiny human particle in gods realm. The part can never express the whole.
The same fake Christians burned many more Christians at the stake than witches. The history of the last 2000 years is of the martyrdom of true Christians. It continues today in Nigeria where thousands are killed every year.
Good and evil is not just a concept - this vaccine coercion has been evil!
You are quite right about God - every human conception of God is limited, blind, unseeing, partial and wrong for God is infinite and eternal.
We could only know anything about God if He revealed Himself to us.
I don't believe any human being can be "resurrected." Therefore I conclude the story falls under the category of "myth."
You may be being tripped up by a priori assumptions: if a God exists who created the universe and exists independently of the universe (i.e. outside the boundaries and restrictions of the universe), then it is nothing to Him to resurrect a dead person.
Only an anthropomorphic God would have an interest in resurrecting people. I don't see God doing something like that because he is not a person. Now if you want to define God as some kind of tremendous force responsible for creation and/or a spirit of good that innately dwells in every person (but often pushed down by an evil spirit), then I would be on board.
As a non-Christian I am more impressed by the good works of Christian charity than a ritual designed to inspire awe in dutiful believers.
Amazingly what you are talking about is essentially the Biblical God:
God as some kind of tremendous person (more than a force actually- He is fully personal ) responsible for creation = God the Eternal Father
and/or a spirit of good that innately dwells in every person (but often pushed down by an evil spirit) = the Holy Spirit (Christian theology is a little more nuanced about the Holy Spirit’s presence and relation to conscience, but what you said is broadly speaking what Christians mean by the Holy Spirit)
But there is one more:
The “eternal word of God” (“Logos” in Greek) the principle of wisdom and rationality seen at work in all things that exist -and at the same time the “light that enlightens all humankind” ie the inspiration behind all rationality and true wisdom = God the Son Who was incarnate as the human being Jesus 2000 years ago
Btw this is far from anthropomorphic God the Father is fully God, God the Son is fully God, and Holy Spirit is fully God, yet not three gods but one God. God the Father is Lord, God the Son is Lord, and God the Holy Spirit is fully Lord, yet not three lords but one Lord.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament
Are you aware that the absolute earliest the new testament was written down was about 70 years after Jesus' death. Many other historians date it more than 100 years after his death. So what Luke wrote down isn't from first hand experience. Those stories have been orally transmitted for at least three generations. A lot of Chinese whispers. No doubt, Jesus was an extraordinarily brave man but we will never know if he died on the cross or not. That he apparently was seen a few days later is an indication that he didn't die.
A long time ago I read a German book about Jesus. The title was something like "A man called Jesus". It made a lot of sense. It debunked the fantastic stories around Jesus. Since then I really like Jesus. I believe he was an extraordinary man, a freedom fighter and advanced spiritual person. The book claimed he went to India between the age of about 20 and 30 years of age and returned much wiser and braver. Advanced Yogis can do amazing things - like being burried alive for weeks and survive. But even Yogi's can't come back from physical death. If the body is dead - it is dead.
I read a lot of books about spirituality and language is tricky and confusing. But in spiritual circles, when they talk about death, very often it refers to the death of the ego and people are reborn in an enlightened state. That's the story in many traditions. I think a similar story happens with Jesus on the cross. His word: "Father forgive them. They don't know what they are doing." is a clear indication that, in his suffering, he has a very enlightening experience, realizing the illusion everyone lives in. I believe that Jesus got enlightened on the cross. The author of the book believes that Jesus had powerful friends that bribed the Roman soldiers (easy to do in these days) and he was saved, barely alive. After his recovery he went back to India. One of the lost Jewish tribes went to India. Apparently he lived with them until he died as an old man. Apparently there is a grave and in his name.
The big question is: Why is so important to keep up that amazing story that he physically resurrected? In all spiritual traditions, the physical was never important. The body is just a biological entity that grows and dies and decays. What matters is spirit and awareness. Most of Christian stories are not helpful or encouraging for people to reach for enlightenment. My 2 cents for what it is worth. You believe what you like. I hope it serves you.
Thank you for your post! It has really inspired me to do another fact check, I really love people's questions and challenges!
The resurrection of Jesus and the divine empowerment of the disciples at Pentecost, is the only thing that can explain the fearlessness of his disciples, who were all martyred for their faith except possibly John the apostle. Indeed it is also the only thing that can explain the utter disregard of the early Christians for their own suffering and their love for their enemies. When one examines the evidence, there is no other credible explanation for these events, if one approaches the facts with an open mind. https://firstfactcheck.substack.com/p/fact-check-jesus-rose-from-the-dead
We can have many theories about Jesus, but there is no credible proof he went to India, sorry. https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/9974/what-evidence-is-there-that-jesus-went-to-india
When we look at scriptures, we should understand what they're saying before we come to conclusions. Might I recommend you read the New Testament and come to your own conclusion from the texts themselves; because (no offence!) it sounds as though you are very fond of this book about Jesus going to India, but you haven't looked very much at what people said about Jesus who actually knew him personally and were his friends, that is, his disciples, who wrote two of the biographies of Jesus called gospels and who directed the writing of the other two. You should at least check out for yourself if this opinion is credible.
Also, the evidence that all the books in the New Testament were written earlier than 70AD (except Revelation) is to me very compelling. https://firstfactcheck.substack.com/p/claim-the-new-testament-was-written
Regarding the ego, etc, well, St Paul said, "I have been crucified with Christ, so that it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me. This life that I live now, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave his life for me." Jesus is the only true light of the world. The life of Jesus gives us real life, eternal life; but to receive this life, we have to die to ourselves, to our own ideas and thoughts. Other religions cannot give this kind of eternal life, because no other human being was resurrected from the dead - only Jesus can give us the Spirit of God.
God bless you and I hope you find the enlightenment you are looking for: please don't give up until you find the truth!
Love the quote by St. Paul. I read the New Testament. I grew up as a Catholic. Left the church aged 18. I don't don't get inspired Christianity very often and often find Christans annoying, arrogant, close minded, patronizing and not very intelligent to be totally honest with you. Your statement that you only can get enlightened through Jesus is totally ridiculous in my opinion. Christians seem very insecure and very obsessed in their exclusivenes of anything else and started many wars, tortured many people in the name of Jesus. It's a dangerous infantile belief system that often gives it's followers a superiority complex and almost unbearable spiritual ego. That's just my observation and how I relate to them. There is great beauty and value in some of the teachings, of course. I love Meister Eckhard. But it can't compare with Buddism and Adveita Vendata in clarity and instructions to reach enlightenment. Of course it works for some people to holy surrender to Christ. But the key word here is not the object (Christ) but the process (surrender). Surrendering can be done in many forms and with many objects and is a way to enlightenment (or heaven as you call it) open to a few who are ready. I try to surrender to the unfolding of life in every moment. I am trying to be happy and fully accepting with whatever the next moment brings. If that's Jesus - great. If it's a nice cup of coffee. The same. Probably strange for you as you seem to glorify and elevate one expression of God (Jesus) over all other expressions of God. God is here in every moment expressed in every manifestation. You don't have to read or believe anything or go back 2000 years. It's right here now accessible to everyone, sinner or saint, believer or non-believer. Just open your eyes. Thats what most religous dont get. Religon and believes and scriptures are the beginning, not the end, and every religious believe has to be dropped eventually because it is distorting and replacing the real experience of God. I met god, I have been god. I don't have to believe in a god. God is all there is. Emphasis on all. No distinctions apply. No holy and unholy. No good and evil. These are silly distinctions created by a dualistic egocentric mind.
I like Meister Eckhardt as well - “Man goes far away or near but God never goes far-off; he is always standing close at hand, and even if he cannot stay within he goes no further than the door.”
Jesus said “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me”
Yes, they talk about the same thing. So do hundreds, if not thousands of other enlightened beings. The only difference between all of them and Jesus is that humans made a lot of fuss around him while others, like Meister Eckhard, went unnoticed. The other big difference, of course, is that Jesus as the man was a dangerous revolutionary provoking the Jews and the Romans and got brutally tortured and crucified for it.
No the difference is Eckhardt said “God stands at the door and knocks” Jesus said “I stand at the door and knock”….!
About God being near; in Romans 10:8 Paul says this: “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So no good and evil? You really think the actions of a person who feeds the hungry is the same as the actions of Hitler, who starved and killed many people? No distinction between the actions of a good parent who sacrifices her own needs to feed her children and a predatory pedophile? No difference between the actions of Martin Luther King and the person who murdered him?
It is Jesus Himself who says that He is the only one for whom it is any use losing our life/ego:
Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?”
Jesus Himself says He is the only way:
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well. In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.
“Lord,” said Thomas, “we do not know where You are going, so how can we know the way?”
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had known Me, you would know My Father as well. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him.”
Carrying your cross - not avoiding suffering but embracing it through love for Jesus and others - is the way to know life according to Jesus.
Of course, there is the concept of good and evil. But it is humans who apply that distinction, and it is not as clear cut through history what is good and what is evil. Burning a woman who followed a pagan god and rituals on the stake - is that good or evil? I guess it depends who you ask. It's a human distinction. It has nothing to do with god. Do you know how many entities there are in the world? Trillions upon trillions upon trillion. "God" is the source of all of them. We humans are just one of those trillions upon trillion upon trillions. If you think we humans are special and chosen bygod, you suffer from a severely egocentrically delusion. Humans wrote down and made up concepts about god, including Jesus and his disciples. God is not what you think. You can't think god. You can only meet him and then you know. And everything you try to say about that meeting will be wrong because language is a tiny human particle in gods realm. The part can never express the whole.
Happy Easter by the way! Hope you’re having a nice holiday where you are. Blessings!
The same fake Christians burned many more Christians at the stake than witches. The history of the last 2000 years is of the martyrdom of true Christians. It continues today in Nigeria where thousands are killed every year.
Good and evil is not just a concept - this vaccine coercion has been evil!
You are quite right about God - every human conception of God is limited, blind, unseeing, partial and wrong for God is infinite and eternal.
We could only know anything about God if He revealed Himself to us.