Well, I’m not buying your interpretation about this generation being future post 1st century Jews.....but rather the Jews to whom Jesus was addressing but maybe I’m simplistic. I see two ages in scripture: the Jewish age before Christ and the church age post Christ. The end of the Jewish age literally came within one generation at the destruction of the Temple. And through Christ a greater age consisting of Jews first, and Gentiles secondly grafted in, began... a greater Israel. Not the New Jersey sized land mass in the Middle East. So yes, I hold a partial Preterist view. The only thing left is an unknown time when Jesus comes...as a flood.... as in the days of Noah.
PPS im not disputing that a new age started at Pentecost either - just the point of what ‘Israel’ means in the New Testament - we are grafted in to Jesus by the way - he is the root of the olive tree - we are the branches Romans 9-11
Ps I’m not insisting on my interpretation here of generation - I think that the stronger argument is for the generation that sees those things - but I would argue that my interpretation is a linguistic possibility
I’m not worried about your spelling! But I would be interested in what Bible verse you can prove this point of view from: nowhere in the New Testament does it talk of a New Israel. A new Jerusalem - yes - the heavenly Jerusalem of which the earthly is but a copy ( on the gates of which are written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel btw). But we gentiles are nowhere spoken of as a replacement for geographical Israel - note in particular Jesus in Acts 1:6-7 does not dispute that the kingdom of Israel will be reestablished - just when - ‘Therefore, when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, are you now restoring the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them, “It isn’t for you to know times or seasons which the Father has set within His own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you. You will be witnesses to me in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samaria, and to the uttermost parts of the earth.”
I'm home late and I repeat my day tommorrow. Some examples I speak of include
Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
Not all who are descended from Israel are Israel?......Just what is Israel? then?
Gentiles, ....Excluded from citizenship from Israel, and foreigners to the covenants of the promise....but now brought near by the blood of Christ.
Ephesians 2:11-13
Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Galations 3:27-29.....all are one..... and Abraham's seed....heirs.
So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise..
After your first quote Paul goes on to say - and please note in Romans 11 “a partial hardening has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and so all Israel will be saved.“
He is not talking about those who are “in Christ” here as Israel but identifies srael as the nation of the Jews.
In none of the sections you have quoted does Paul use “Israel” to describe all believers in Christ. Yes we are all heirs to Abraham. We are all - Jew and gentile - one in Christ in the church - but Israel in the NT is still the Jewish believers who are now physically geographically and by ancestry Israel, and true Israel are the subset of those who are in Christ.
This whole section explains Paul’s view - we gentiles are chosen in Christ along with a Jewish Israeli remnant - but once “the fullness of gentiles has come in” all Israel will be saved. Israel means Israel - otherwise the contrast between chosen ones in Israel and Israel doesn’t make sense. It’s like gender theory - saying there is no male or female in Christ doesn’t mean the distinction between male and female disappears - some people are still males others are females but in Christ all believers are equally members of Christs body and heirs of Abraham.
Romans 11:1 I ask then, Did God reject his people? May it never be! For I also am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God didn’t reject his people, which he foreknew. Or don’t you know what the Scripture says about Elijah? How he pleads with God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have broken down your altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.” 4 But how does God answer him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
Rom. 11:7 What then? That which Israel seeks for, that he didn’t obtain, but the chosen ones obtained it, and the rest were hardened. 8 According as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, to this very day.” 9 David says,
“Let their table be made a snare, and a trap,
A stumbling block, and a retribution to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see.
Bow down their back always.”
Rom. 11:11 I ask then, did they stumble that they might fall? May it never be! But by their fall salvation has come to the Gentiles, to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if their fall is the riches of the world, and their loss the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness? 13 For I speak to you who are Gentiles. Since then as I am an apostle to Gentiles, I glorify my ministry; 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh, and may save some of them. 15 For if the rejection of them is the reconciling of the world, what would their acceptance be, but life from the dead? 16 If the first fruit is holy, so is the lump. If the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them, and became partaker with them of the root and of the richness of the olive tree; 18 don’t boast over the branches. But if you boast, it is not you who support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.” 20 True; by their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith. Don’t be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God didn’t spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 They also, if they don’t continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree, how much more will these, which are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 25 For I don’t desire, brothers,a to have you ignorant of this mystery, so that you won’t be wise in your own conceits, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and so all Israel will be saved. Even as it is written,
“There will come out of Zion the Deliverer,
And he will turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
27 This is my covenant to them,
When I will take away their sins.”
Rom. 11:28 Concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But concerning the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sake. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you in time past were disobedient to God, but now have obtained mercy by their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that by the mercy shown to you they may also obtain mercy. 32 For God has shut up all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all.
33 Oh the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past tracing out!
Rom. 11:34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?”
35 “Or who has first given to him,
And it will be repaid to him again?”
Rom. 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things. To him be the glory for ever! Amen.
So you have a 20th century futurist bent on interpretting romans 11, particularly verse 5. I don't.
At Pauls's present time v5, i.e. the 1st century there is a remnant chosen by grace. This is in contrast of 7000 in Elijah's time. Meaning judgement was coming down on the Jewish Nation and a "small" number would be saved, the rest, judged. In Noahs day, a remnant was saved. The rest, death.
Paul's remnant was 2000 years ago would be saved. Saved from what? Why are they idenified as a "remnant" if they have 2000 (perhaps 200000) years to become a "remnant" before God switches plans saving ALL of ethnic Israel....based on circumcision, alone? All of this goes against Paul's message on the worthiness of circumcision. You don't know the day or the hour when this mass conversion of the "state" of Israel occurs. it's been 2000 years, thus far. It could be 200,000 years.
Seems to me, Paul is writing with a 1st century mindset that Gentiles are used to provoke Jews to jealousy to come to Christ (v11). Now, I DO see how 1st century Jews cared, getting their panties in a bunch over the fact that their bretheren were adopting this novel religion, and were coming to Christ invoking jealousy. Strong evidence supports this in Acts.
I DON'T see how this remotely applies to the 21st multicultural century and many paths to God mindset. Dennis Prager doesn't act too jealous of Christians. Neither does Benjamin Netanyahu who depends on organizations like CUFI to support his Zionism. And I don't think that fact will ever change, either, unless there is a mass revival, and more Zionist Jews suddenly join the revival and what becomes what you loosely interpret as remnant..... Now I can see how dispensational thought might consider those Jews who escape the Great Tribulation as defined in dispensationalism might be a remnant. I don't see how Jews who come to Christ over the last 2000 years become a remnant. Seems a remnant has some connection to a form of impending judgement where there is major loss of life and a few...a remnant, are spared.
But to think that there is some special time at some special age when God abandon's changes plans to save ALL, ethnic Israel in the landmass called Zionist secular Israel based on circumcision, alone, seems your futurist dispensational interpretation to me goes against what Paul preaches on the value of circumcision, and misses the mark of what Paul is trying to get across to his 1st century gentile audience....
Without desiring to open a can of worms, which I suspect is too late, the fullness of Gentiles seem to me the fullness required to incite this remnant to come to Christ before all hell was about to break lose on Jerusalem in 70AD. It's akin to the Time of the Gentiles being fulfilled in Luke 21:24. They are identified as a remnant because God was about to bring judgement in the form of Vespassian who would destroy every Jew in his path, that and including the Jews in Jerusalem, and the Temple (as Jesus predicted), ending the Old Covenant in its entirety, and bringing judgement for rejecting Jesus as the Messiah. Keep in mind, Paul's remnant is a remnant of the 1st century, already chosen v5..
I suspose you can do the gymnastics of saying its some future remanant or its a remnant of 20000 years.....but for me it dovetails with what Jesus speaks of one generation, when judgement was coming upon the Jewish nation, and the destruction of the Temple......, and a remnant then has 1st century significance. I suspect they are Jewish converts to Christ spurred by jealousy who then heeded Christ's warnings, took flight to Pella, before Titus's army laid siege on Jerusalem History shows, Jews were escaping Roman armies through Semaria are heading TO Jerusalem for safety counter to Christ's warnings....to flee Jerusalem.
It was the purpose of Paul's ministry v13, is relevant to this motive to convert Gentiles to invoke this remnant of Jews to come to Christ:" if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh, and may save some of them"
As Paul wrote, "to save some".... "a remnant chosen by grace"....save this remnant from what? God's judgement on those who rejected their Messiah brought by Titus.
And 'All Israel' whatever Paul means, as you become particularly close to universalism, or worse basing salvation on circumcision....
I abandoned dispensationalism in the 90's long after embarassing predictions of rapture came and went, and adopted preterism which was more satisfying, and didn't require a 2000 and counting pause or parenthesis in God's prophetic plan outlined in Daniel's 70 weeks, or special dispensations for ethnic Jewish salvation based on universality of being ethnic Jewish, and not on Christ's atoning work on the cross.
All of which Seems to work against Pauls general message of Romans.
Prager and Netanyahu’s positivity towards Christianity (and many other Jews) is unique: for the past 2000 years Jews have uniformly rejected Christianity, apart from a remnant in each generation. The Israel situation has changed the dynamic completely.
Belonging to Israel / being Jewish is primarily being a descendant of Isaac, not being circumcised according to Paul and the way Jews see themselves today.
For the last 2000 years only a remnant (small number) of Jews has been saved (come to faith in Christ) in every generation. At some point all Israel will be saved, when the fullness of gentiles have come in. This is what Paul says; I’m not making this up.
Regarding pre tribulation rapture - that one is unscriptural. But Jesus will return - scripture doesn’t say when.
I don’t know what a “dispensation” is - but those who invented replacement theology (Augustine) said the Jews would be witnesses wandering the earth for others to Gods judgement on them forever for rejecting Christ. Well the fact that the Jews got Israel back disproves Augustine’s view completely.
I would recommend praying about these things and just taking the scripture as is - not believing anyone’s interpretation - just read it and evaluate what it actually says.
Pauls message in Romans is not “gentiles are saved by faith in Christ but Jews can never be saved” it is “both gentiles and Jews are saved by faith in Christ” together with “God’s mercy allows this” - and he says the Jews were temporarily cut off so the gentiles could be grafted in.
I am very suspicious of any “isms” as they tend to project a set of meanings onto scripture rather than believing simply what it says.
The right intellectual approach I believe is humility and agnosticism towards any apparent contradictions we can’t understand; what seems to contradict often becomes clear with more time patience and faith that God knows all things.
Well, I’m not buying your interpretation about this generation being future post 1st century Jews.....but rather the Jews to whom Jesus was addressing but maybe I’m simplistic. I see two ages in scripture: the Jewish age before Christ and the church age post Christ. The end of the Jewish age literally came within one generation at the destruction of the Temple. And through Christ a greater age consisting of Jews first, and Gentiles secondly grafted in, began... a greater Israel. Not the New Jersey sized land mass in the Middle East. So yes, I hold a partial Preterist view. The only thing left is an unknown time when Jesus comes...as a flood.... as in the days of Noah.
PPS im not disputing that a new age started at Pentecost either - just the point of what ‘Israel’ means in the New Testament - we are grafted in to Jesus by the way - he is the root of the olive tree - we are the branches Romans 9-11
Good explanation here http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/reformed/israelaf.htm
Ps I’m not insisting on my interpretation here of generation - I think that the stronger argument is for the generation that sees those things - but I would argue that my interpretation is a linguistic possibility
I’m not worried about your spelling! But I would be interested in what Bible verse you can prove this point of view from: nowhere in the New Testament does it talk of a New Israel. A new Jerusalem - yes - the heavenly Jerusalem of which the earthly is but a copy ( on the gates of which are written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel btw). But we gentiles are nowhere spoken of as a replacement for geographical Israel - note in particular Jesus in Acts 1:6-7 does not dispute that the kingdom of Israel will be reestablished - just when - ‘Therefore, when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, are you now restoring the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them, “It isn’t for you to know times or seasons which the Father has set within His own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you. You will be witnesses to me in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samaria, and to the uttermost parts of the earth.”
I'm home late and I repeat my day tommorrow. Some examples I speak of include
Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
Not all who are descended from Israel are Israel?......Just what is Israel? then?
Gentiles, ....Excluded from citizenship from Israel, and foreigners to the covenants of the promise....but now brought near by the blood of Christ.
Ephesians 2:11-13
Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Galations 3:27-29.....all are one..... and Abraham's seed....heirs.
So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise..
Echoed in Romans 10:12
BTW Gods promise to Abraham is that he will be the father of many nations - not just Israel
Rather incredibly - after posting this I started listening to this - they say it better than me https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/pod-for-israel-biblical-insights-from-israel/id1480254892?i=1000644677935
After your first quote Paul goes on to say - and please note in Romans 11 “a partial hardening has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and so all Israel will be saved.“
He is not talking about those who are “in Christ” here as Israel but identifies srael as the nation of the Jews.
In none of the sections you have quoted does Paul use “Israel” to describe all believers in Christ. Yes we are all heirs to Abraham. We are all - Jew and gentile - one in Christ in the church - but Israel in the NT is still the Jewish believers who are now physically geographically and by ancestry Israel, and true Israel are the subset of those who are in Christ.
This whole section explains Paul’s view - we gentiles are chosen in Christ along with a Jewish Israeli remnant - but once “the fullness of gentiles has come in” all Israel will be saved. Israel means Israel - otherwise the contrast between chosen ones in Israel and Israel doesn’t make sense. It’s like gender theory - saying there is no male or female in Christ doesn’t mean the distinction between male and female disappears - some people are still males others are females but in Christ all believers are equally members of Christs body and heirs of Abraham.
Romans 11:1 I ask then, Did God reject his people? May it never be! For I also am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God didn’t reject his people, which he foreknew. Or don’t you know what the Scripture says about Elijah? How he pleads with God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have broken down your altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.” 4 But how does God answer him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
Rom. 11:7 What then? That which Israel seeks for, that he didn’t obtain, but the chosen ones obtained it, and the rest were hardened. 8 According as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, to this very day.” 9 David says,
“Let their table be made a snare, and a trap,
A stumbling block, and a retribution to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see.
Bow down their back always.”
Rom. 11:11 I ask then, did they stumble that they might fall? May it never be! But by their fall salvation has come to the Gentiles, to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if their fall is the riches of the world, and their loss the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness? 13 For I speak to you who are Gentiles. Since then as I am an apostle to Gentiles, I glorify my ministry; 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh, and may save some of them. 15 For if the rejection of them is the reconciling of the world, what would their acceptance be, but life from the dead? 16 If the first fruit is holy, so is the lump. If the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them, and became partaker with them of the root and of the richness of the olive tree; 18 don’t boast over the branches. But if you boast, it is not you who support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.” 20 True; by their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith. Don’t be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God didn’t spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 They also, if they don’t continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree, how much more will these, which are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 25 For I don’t desire, brothers,a to have you ignorant of this mystery, so that you won’t be wise in your own conceits, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and so all Israel will be saved. Even as it is written,
“There will come out of Zion the Deliverer,
And he will turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
27 This is my covenant to them,
When I will take away their sins.”
Rom. 11:28 Concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But concerning the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sake. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you in time past were disobedient to God, but now have obtained mercy by their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that by the mercy shown to you they may also obtain mercy. 32 For God has shut up all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all.
33 Oh the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past tracing out!
Rom. 11:34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?”
35 “Or who has first given to him,
And it will be repaid to him again?”
Rom. 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things. To him be the glory for ever! Amen.
So you have a 20th century futurist bent on interpretting romans 11, particularly verse 5. I don't.
At Pauls's present time v5, i.e. the 1st century there is a remnant chosen by grace. This is in contrast of 7000 in Elijah's time. Meaning judgement was coming down on the Jewish Nation and a "small" number would be saved, the rest, judged. In Noahs day, a remnant was saved. The rest, death.
Paul's remnant was 2000 years ago would be saved. Saved from what? Why are they idenified as a "remnant" if they have 2000 (perhaps 200000) years to become a "remnant" before God switches plans saving ALL of ethnic Israel....based on circumcision, alone? All of this goes against Paul's message on the worthiness of circumcision. You don't know the day or the hour when this mass conversion of the "state" of Israel occurs. it's been 2000 years, thus far. It could be 200,000 years.
Seems to me, Paul is writing with a 1st century mindset that Gentiles are used to provoke Jews to jealousy to come to Christ (v11). Now, I DO see how 1st century Jews cared, getting their panties in a bunch over the fact that their bretheren were adopting this novel religion, and were coming to Christ invoking jealousy. Strong evidence supports this in Acts.
I DON'T see how this remotely applies to the 21st multicultural century and many paths to God mindset. Dennis Prager doesn't act too jealous of Christians. Neither does Benjamin Netanyahu who depends on organizations like CUFI to support his Zionism. And I don't think that fact will ever change, either, unless there is a mass revival, and more Zionist Jews suddenly join the revival and what becomes what you loosely interpret as remnant..... Now I can see how dispensational thought might consider those Jews who escape the Great Tribulation as defined in dispensationalism might be a remnant. I don't see how Jews who come to Christ over the last 2000 years become a remnant. Seems a remnant has some connection to a form of impending judgement where there is major loss of life and a few...a remnant, are spared.
But to think that there is some special time at some special age when God abandon's changes plans to save ALL, ethnic Israel in the landmass called Zionist secular Israel based on circumcision, alone, seems your futurist dispensational interpretation to me goes against what Paul preaches on the value of circumcision, and misses the mark of what Paul is trying to get across to his 1st century gentile audience....
Without desiring to open a can of worms, which I suspect is too late, the fullness of Gentiles seem to me the fullness required to incite this remnant to come to Christ before all hell was about to break lose on Jerusalem in 70AD. It's akin to the Time of the Gentiles being fulfilled in Luke 21:24. They are identified as a remnant because God was about to bring judgement in the form of Vespassian who would destroy every Jew in his path, that and including the Jews in Jerusalem, and the Temple (as Jesus predicted), ending the Old Covenant in its entirety, and bringing judgement for rejecting Jesus as the Messiah. Keep in mind, Paul's remnant is a remnant of the 1st century, already chosen v5..
I suspose you can do the gymnastics of saying its some future remanant or its a remnant of 20000 years.....but for me it dovetails with what Jesus speaks of one generation, when judgement was coming upon the Jewish nation, and the destruction of the Temple......, and a remnant then has 1st century significance. I suspect they are Jewish converts to Christ spurred by jealousy who then heeded Christ's warnings, took flight to Pella, before Titus's army laid siege on Jerusalem History shows, Jews were escaping Roman armies through Semaria are heading TO Jerusalem for safety counter to Christ's warnings....to flee Jerusalem.
It was the purpose of Paul's ministry v13, is relevant to this motive to convert Gentiles to invoke this remnant of Jews to come to Christ:" if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh, and may save some of them"
As Paul wrote, "to save some".... "a remnant chosen by grace"....save this remnant from what? God's judgement on those who rejected their Messiah brought by Titus.
And 'All Israel' whatever Paul means, as you become particularly close to universalism, or worse basing salvation on circumcision....
I abandoned dispensationalism in the 90's long after embarassing predictions of rapture came and went, and adopted preterism which was more satisfying, and didn't require a 2000 and counting pause or parenthesis in God's prophetic plan outlined in Daniel's 70 weeks, or special dispensations for ethnic Jewish salvation based on universality of being ethnic Jewish, and not on Christ's atoning work on the cross.
All of which Seems to work against Pauls general message of Romans.
Prager and Netanyahu’s positivity towards Christianity (and many other Jews) is unique: for the past 2000 years Jews have uniformly rejected Christianity, apart from a remnant in each generation. The Israel situation has changed the dynamic completely.
Belonging to Israel / being Jewish is primarily being a descendant of Isaac, not being circumcised according to Paul and the way Jews see themselves today.
For the last 2000 years only a remnant (small number) of Jews has been saved (come to faith in Christ) in every generation. At some point all Israel will be saved, when the fullness of gentiles have come in. This is what Paul says; I’m not making this up.
Regarding pre tribulation rapture - that one is unscriptural. But Jesus will return - scripture doesn’t say when.
I don’t know what a “dispensation” is - but those who invented replacement theology (Augustine) said the Jews would be witnesses wandering the earth for others to Gods judgement on them forever for rejecting Christ. Well the fact that the Jews got Israel back disproves Augustine’s view completely.
I would recommend praying about these things and just taking the scripture as is - not believing anyone’s interpretation - just read it and evaluate what it actually says.
Pauls message in Romans is not “gentiles are saved by faith in Christ but Jews can never be saved” it is “both gentiles and Jews are saved by faith in Christ” together with “God’s mercy allows this” - and he says the Jews were temporarily cut off so the gentiles could be grafted in.
I am very suspicious of any “isms” as they tend to project a set of meanings onto scripture rather than believing simply what it says.
The right intellectual approach I believe is humility and agnosticism towards any apparent contradictions we can’t understand; what seems to contradict often becomes clear with more time patience and faith that God knows all things.
I’ll have to correct my spelling later. My Substack app doesn’t allow me.... and I’m away from a PC.😂